Pankaj Kedia 0:00 Over the last couple of decades, AI has been hidden. You know, we use it every day without knowing about it. What has happened over the last nine months is AI God, or UX. It is the moral equivalent of TCP IP. The Internet, getting the browser, you know we are in AI UX revolution. Don't start a company because it is sexy to start an AI company. Start a company because you have a vision. You have a belief that something should be new and different. existing technology helps you track progress helps you track your steps. Ai takes you from tracking to recommend. Max Matson 1:01 Hey there, everyone. Welcome back to future product. This week. I'm incredibly excited to be sitting down with a well known name in tech, Pankaj Kedia. Pankaj, it's so nice to have you on the podcast today. I'm delighted to be here, Max. Thanks for inviting me. Oh, my pleasure. punkish. So Pankaj, just to give a little bit of background, you've been attacked intrapreneur at some of the biggest tech companies in the world for quite some time, having been a major part of incubating a range of businesses inside of Qualcomm and Intel over the last 25 years. For those who aren't familiar with that term, would you mind just quickly kind of defining what an intrapreneur is? Yeah, so So Max, an intrapreneur is someone who starts new businesses inside big companies. Pankaj Kedia 1:41 I've been fortunate to be at the right place at the right time inside Intel and Qualcomm there. I was part of starting a number of new device segments. We'll talk more about that. An entrepreneur is somebody who starts businesses outside. So my story Max is I've been intrapreneurs and becoming entrepreneurs. I've been a inventors, innovator. And becoming investor. I'm sure we'll talk a lot about this. Max Matson 2:21 Absolutely. Yeah, I was incredibly excited to kind of have you on because you have such a range of experience across kind of the whole scope of the industry, right from the inside out and the outside in. Right. So that kind of being said, let's talk a little bit about what got you to that position. How did you find yourself kind of as an intrapreneur, Pankaj Kedia 2:39 I grew up in India. I went to perhaps the best engineering school, not only in India, but across Asia. The Indian Institute of Technology in Roorkee. I'll tell you a story. You know, my my parents were about 500 miles away. And the primary way of communicating was writing a letter, which took you know, one or two weeks to get there. If you wanted to make a phone call, we had to go to this room where we booked a phone call, we we booked a trunk call. Under normal circumstances, it would take 12 to 24 hours to connect. If I paid 10 times more, then I could book an urgent phone call or a lightning phone call, which would take 30 to 60 minutes to connect. So every time I wanted to get in touch with my parents, I would go to this place. I would book a trunk call. Most of the time, I did it the standard way. And and then we had runners and the like people up, I gave them my schedule for the next 24 hours. And as they were getting ready to book the trunk call, the runner would come running, find me and then I would go running. And I would talk to my parents for two or three minutes. I could not afford much longer than that. Right. So we were not connected. It was a pain to be connected. My number one goal coming to the US was to change that. So you know I went to good schools. I went to the University of Michigan I did my business school from Wharton University of Pennsylvania. The first decade of my working life was riding the internet. helping all of us take advantage of the internet. You know, when I entered the workforce, we were living in our desktop PC or desktop, right? That means to access the internet, you had to go to your desk, you had to go to your den, you had to go to your work, right? I, along with very smart people, at Intel, we made the internet go mobile, we drove the coming of the laptop PC, with the laptop PC, you could take your internet, wherever your lab coats wherever you go. You could work in a plane, you could work in a train, you could work on the beach, you could work at Starbucks, right? So the first decade, I was fortunate to be at the right place at the right time. And untether the internet experience from primarily desktop to mobile. In the second decade, I had marketing roles, product roles, business development, roles, ecosystem roles, to take the internet, from sitting down from your lap to wherever you are, right. That's when the advent of handhelds tablets, smartphones happen. So you know, wherever you are, you could experience the power of the internet, you didn't have to be sitting down, you could be standing in the queue, you might be going for a run. And that was exciting. Over the last decade, yeah, I had the honor and privilege to start the variable business for Qualcomm. Right. I ran it for 10 years. And you know, variables are a part of you are a part of me. They they represent to who I am. And incubating the variable business, growing it to 10s of millions of units has been incredibly exciting. So I've written the internet way, the mobile way. Yeah, the variable wave, right? At times, I had the honor of shaping these ways of accelerating these weights, right? Since leaving Qualcomm earlier this year, I've become investor. I have pivoted to AI. And I'm working with lots and lots of companies, lots and lots of startup founders and CEOs to help them create new businesses to help them create new categories. And it is incredibly exciting to be working with, you know, ambitious founders. So it has been a long journey. But I'm proud of everything we have been able to accomplish. Max Matson 8:46 Oh, as it should be. Absolutely. And I love the way that you break that up, right, kind of quantifying the decades as arrows. Right? And I think that's not on, is to say that you were kind of at the front of this wave of bringing the internet with you places, right. And so then what's the logical kind of next step there? It's, it's on your wrist, right? It's It's here, it's it's within your the palm of your hand. So all that being said, what was it that you saw from a kind of macro perspective that made you say, I think the future is an AI and an investing in these companies? Pankaj Kedia 9:18 Yeah. Yeah. So you know. My career has been using technology to empower people to help them connect. To make it easy for every man, every woman, every child, even every pet to change the way how you how you work, how you live, how you play, how you share how you communicate. AI is not new. The first versions of AI were born in the 90s 50s Actually, when I was going to the University of Michigan, my graduate thesis was in AI. Okay. After Michigan, I worked at NyrStar. In the Artificial Intelligence Group, my first job was in AI. Over the last couple of decades, AI has been hidden. You know, we use it every day without knowing about it. We use it when you when you take a Uber ride, or when you search on Google, or when you take a picture, or when you're playing games. What has happened over the last nine months, is AI got a UX AI got chargeability or, or other variants. It is the moral equivalent of TCP IP, the internet, getting the browser it is the equivalent of the smartphone, the mobile phone getting a UX with Blackberry, and the iPhone. Right. So once AI, gets the UX, you know, we are in AI UX revolution, as we are in generative AI revolution. Right, you and I can now access AI, we can relate to AI. So I think the next five or 10 years will be nothing short of revolutionary. I saw this coming. Maybe 18 months ago, I had already been investing in AI. Okay. But when I saw that AI is going to get you X you know, I could feel that AI has been puttering around. Right. And the hockey stick will start. That's exactly what has happened, you know, since November last year. Right. And investing in AI. I felt like, you know, that's how I was born. Like going back to my roots. Yeah. And working with founders, helping them grow, helping them go from zero to one, or one to 10. One 200 is not only exciting, but immensely fulfilling. You know, AI is perhaps the first technology that's truly global in nature. Right? If you look at the internet, it was mostly born in the US. And then it went to places around the world. If you look at the mobile phone, it was, you know, the first versions of the mobile phone were born in the US. They moved to Europe, then Silicon Valley with Apple and Android, really drove the smartphone growth. With AI. More than half the countries around the world, more than 100 countries are actively investing. You know, whether it's China or India, whether it is part of here or parts of Europe, of course, in the US so much investment, so much excitement is going that being in the middle of it in a global phenomenon, where you know, the hockey stick is going to beat all hockey sticks. It's the mother of hockey sticks. What could be more exciting than that? Max Matson 13:56 100% No, absolutely. And I love that characterization. Right. It's kind of a comparison that I've heard a lot that I don't think is super apt is comparing AI to crypto right or or to blockchain, which I think the blockchain has its uses for sure. And is a valuable technology. But AI, like you said, and I think your career kind of mirrors this is something that has been underneath the technology that we use every day for as long as the technology has been around, right, refining it, making it better, more intuitive. And so it's kind of the sleeping giant that's now waking up to kind of create that hockey stick growth that you were talking about. Pankaj Kedia 14:30 Yeah, yeah. Now. People ask me, is AI hype? Is AI real? Yeah. And my answer is yes. AI will touch every one of us. It will touch every segment it will touch every vertical it will touch, enterprise and consumer. AI is building on top of the Internet revolution, the mobile revolution. The Cloud advances. So the possibilities are literally limitless? Yes? Is there hype shows, every new technology has some hype. But if you unveil the curtain, there is a lot happening, a lot of good is happening, that will truly change how we live our lives, you know, over the next few years Max Matson 15:30 100% or so to that person. And and I think that your experience is one of a kind here, would you almost liken it to when you were bringing laptops to the market when you were bringing smartphones wearables to the market, Pankaj Kedia 15:43 you know, when we were bringing laptops to market. At that time, this is 25 years ago. In the industry, there were maybe 200 million desktops. 200 of the 6 billion people at the time, had access to a PC, right. And less than 10%, were using laptops. Actually, the first laptops were used not for mobility. But for specific in Japan, because the offices were small. And instead of having enough space for a desktop tower, we see people were using laptops, what we showed was the laptop, the cost of ownership was higher, it cost more to buy a laptop, it cost more to manage the laptop. But that total benefit of ownership was much, much higher, it more than made up for the higher cost. With a laptop. You were not working eight to five and living five to eight, you could be more flexible. You know, your work life balance was something you could manage better. You could you could work anywhere. You know, if you had a one hour train ride, it was productive time. If you had a flight from San Diego to New York, it was productive time. Right. So what happened in the first decade was the desktop PC owners started buying Laptop PC. Because it gave them freedom. It gave them mobility, it gave them flexibility. But also with the rise of the Internet. Laptop growth was unfettered. And you know, after the first decade, more than 70% of the people were using a laptop instead of a desktop. They were accessing they were benefiting from the power of the internet, or wherever they work, right. Mobile or smartphone made it made the internet accessible to many, many people around the world. In places like Pakistan, and Haiti, in China and India, the first taste of the internet was on the mobile phone, not the laptop. So mobile phone, you know, literally made internet pervasive, right. So now all of us have some kind of device, I have many devices, all of us have access to the Internet. In comes ai, ai builds on top of the innovations around Internet, and mobile and cloud. And so there is this multiplicative effect there, everybody. If you have access to the internet, you have access to air. If you have access to any kind of device, mobile device connected to the cloud, you have access to the to AI, right. So that is enabling. I see many, many people to incubate new businesses, it is enabling you and I to benefit from all of the innovation in AI. So I think AI is much bigger than Internet or mobile or cloud AI will accelerate much faster than those previous technologies. Right and you know, these previous technologies but not them, right? They grew really fast, right? So the future is bright, the possibilities are endless. And I couldn't be more excited about where we are today. Max Matson 20:14 Absolutely. And as somebody who's you know, interfacing with these companies every day, who's looking for new companies? What is it kind of in the market? You know, it's becoming saturated pretty quickly, that you're looking for when you're looking for an AI company? Is it? Is it concept? Is it founder track record? What's kind of the indicators of success there? Pankaj Kedia 20:35 Yeah, so that's a good question. Next, maybe I'll break your question into two. Sounds good? Where are the opportunities in AI? And what do I look for when I invest in here, right. So where are the opportunities in AI? There are three or four layers of opportunities. The bottom layer is the required hardware. We have seen the excitement around Nvidia. We have seen, we have heard what AMD and Intel and Qualcomm are trying to do in the hardware space. There are a few very interesting startups working on customized chipsets, customized technology, right? For AI. So that's, that's the first layer. The second layer are the large language models. It started with GPT went to what Google is doing. Increasingly, we are seeing personal language models that are tuned to you and I as a person, increasingly, we are seeing domain specific models, or DLLs. So examples would be, you know, for education, for medical, for lawyers for finance. That's the second layer. The third layer, is what I call the infrastructure or middleware. So as AI becomes pervasive, we would need new models for security, for managing devices. For data analytics, there's a lot of action there. And then last, but not the least, applying AI in consumer space, in vertical space, you know, in the vertical space, healthcare, education, in the accounting space in the legal space in the manufacturing space, right in the assembly line, in farming in mining, every one of these verticals is getting transformed, will get transformed because of the benefit of AI. So there are opportunities at every level. When I look for an investment, I'm an early stage investor. I primarily look for is the market big enough? And is the founder ambitious enough, I see. If the founder is super good, he or she will pivot if the current business plan is not working, right. If the market is big, and the founder is good, he or she will figure out how to take advantage of the market. The question I ask is, what's your vision? Is the founder Miss founder? How do you want to change the game? Right. I have not met a founder who said, Pankaj, today I just want to tell I don't want to change the game. Right. So So working with these founders is very exciting. And it comes down to what if his vision? What if her vision materializes? I see? Will that be a big enough opportunity? If the answer is yes, then I will go to the second level of due diligence and I will likely invest. If it is not right. I walk away. And you know, doing a startup is hard. As an intrapreneur. I got in early, right with the first laptops with the first tablets with the first smartphones. I started wearable with zero. And the overnight success did not come overnight. It took wired, lots of ups and downs, the highs were higher, the lows were lower. As a startup founder, as the CEO, it's a very tough life. Now there will be 10 different things that can go wrong, right? As an investor, if you start obsessing about, you know, this can go wrong, this can go wrong, this can go wrong, right? You would never invest. Right? Right. So, as an early stage investor, you are investing in the market, and you're investing in the founder. And over the last few years, I have invested in over 100, startups 100, early stage companies, they are generally at the intersection of AI. And different verticals are my priorities are healthcare, sports and fitness, right? Industrial, industrial and manufacturing, mining, farming, construction, logistics, retail, finance, and clean energy. I've done some investments in consumer as well. But it has always been at the intersection of the latest in technology, which happens to be aI at the time, at this time. And then these verticals. And it is so much fun. You know, watching your babies grow up, I'm sure and change the game. Max Matson 26:40 Now, absolutely. How do we put that it's nothing ventured, nothing gained, right? I think it was very much what it comes down to. So you have faith in the founder and in the market, right, you know that this market is expanding, you know that AI is going to touch everything. So it sounds like you're spreading out in the things that you believe in? And then investing in the people that you believe in within those spaces. You got it. Perfect, perfect. And do you personally enjoy doing investment as much as you enjoy doing? intrapreneurship? Pankaj Kedia 27:08 Absolutely, you know, as an intrapreneur, you're working with one product at a time at one company at a time. As a investor. I'm working with many, many products, many, many business ideas, many, many founders. And I'm still able to leverage what I learned as an intrapreneurs. Right? With the startups I support. But it is it is very exciting. You know, big companies are able to scale faster. When when the technology is mature, and the business model is spelt out, right when the customers are there. When the ecosystem has matured, a startup is starting up the need finding the first customer building the ecosystem, the early stage startup going from a precede to a seed, seed to Series A, A to B, B to C it's a much steeper learning curve. Much more exciting. And in a Taemin that, ya Max Matson 28:39 know, I'm sure I'm sure it's a lot of fun. But you do mention kind of the challenges, right that come with that. Because when you're doing that demand generation when you're you're feeding a market that maybe doesn't even exist today, but you know is going to exist tomorrow. There are a lot of unique challenges that come with that. What is kind of your biggest piece of advice that you find yourself giving to founders that are in the space? Pankaj Kedia 29:02 Yeah. Don't give up. Don't start a company because it is sexy to start an AI company. Start a company because you have a vision. You have a belief that something should be new and different. You have a long term vision. Stick to it. You will have day to day you will have many challenges. You will have higher highs and lower lows, but you cannot give up. So it's a it's a marathon. It's not a sprint. But at the end of the marathon you know you would have changed the game. You would have impacted many many lives. And so have fun while running the marathon never give Max Matson 29:58 up It's perfect. No 100% It's great advice. So I do just for the sake of everybody who's listening, want to make sure that I get a little bit more into your background, just cuz you have such a fascinating background. So kind of on that theme, I'm sure that in your time doing intrapreneurship, because similarly, you were bringing a lot of products to market markets that maybe didn't exist at the time that you were bringing them. What were some of the bigger challenges that you faced during those times that have kind of shaped you into the the investor and intrapreneur that you are today? Pankaj Kedia 30:29 Yeah, yeah. So you know, as intrapreneurs the corporation you're working at, has the core business domain business, it's generating lots of cash, both Intel and Qualcomm are very good companies, Intel generated so much cash in the VC business. Now doing so in the cloud business. Qualcomm Of course, invented wireless in different shapes and forms. Qualcomm changed the game with the smartphone we know and love, right? At these companies, when you try to start a new business, sometimes it can be distracting to the main business, right? So not everybody will support you. You know, before you get a yes, you will get 10 knows, right, you cannot give up, you have to find that one champion who will support you, you know, despite the odds, right? When you start a new business, you start at zero, you don't become a billion dollar business without becoming a $10 million business and 100 million dollar business right? In large companies, such as Intel, and Qualcomm. 10 million 100 million, even a billion dollars does not move the needle. Right? So so to get the resources to get the attention, you have to stay at it. Not give up, have your champion support you and build the house brick by brick, right. And someday it will move the needle, you have to have that faith, you have to have that trust. Day to day, it's it's not easy. Number three, you have to have not just the management behind you. But But a good team behind you. You have to have customers wanting you to support them. You have to build the ecosystem from scratch. Right, right. A good example in the wearable space is Android has been very successful. at Qualcomm, we work very closely with Google to make Android Wear or notice called wear OS. So Android for wearables successful and it was not a straight climb. So starting anything, is not easy. Starting in a big company, where you have all these constraints, you have to work around those. If I go to a startup, you know you're always looking for financial support. In a big company, financial support is easier to get in a startup, financial support, you're always looking for you are always going to Sand Hill Road and looking for, you know, angel investing, venture investing. You have to chart your own course, you have to find product market fit, you have to find the first customer to go to market, you have to find ways to scale. So some of the challenges are very similar. Of course, the context is very different. Right, right, right. Max Matson 34:35 I see that makes a lot of sense. So that being the case, right funding being kind of the variable when you're an entrepreneur versus kind of buy in and belief being the variable when you're an intrapreneur. You've had both experiences, right? Between the two it sounds like conviction is the thing that really guides you right? It's the fact that you personally feel the problem that you want to solve Have, you felt it yourself and you felt that it was going to be a guiding force in your life, right, the fact that connection was was so difficult, and that with each step of the way, you're making it more and more accessible. So it sounds like if you're a founder, what you should aim for is to have a problem, right? To have a problem that you can solve that you can go out and be the person to provide an answer to, what does that sound like a fair characterization. Pankaj Kedia 35:23 You know, I have always believed that the future can be better than it is today. Whether it's in the enterprise space, or consumer space, whether it is in hardware or software, whether it is with the internet, or mobile, or AI, the future will be better than today. And if I'm running the team, I have the power, I have the influence, I have the wherewithal to make it. So every founder, every entrepreneur, every intrapreneur has to believe those two things, the future will be better than today. Right? And he or she has the power to make it. So once you have that conviction, once you have the vision of what the future can be. And you're not willing to give up, you will work harder and smarter every day. That's what brings you closer to success. Max Matson 36:32 Absolutely. I love that. I hope every entrepreneur is taking notes. So that being said, I actually I see you you've got a couple of wearables on your wrist now. And like we talked about you were on the forefront of that revolution. It seems a little bit obvious. I'm sure it was a lot less obvious at the time, laptops and smartphones, right? But wearables I'm just so fascinated, where did that idea originate? What kind of gave you that buy in to say, Hey, this is something that we should invest resources and time into. And what was it like getting that over the hump to be such a massive success. Pankaj Kedia 37:07 You know, when we went from the desktop PC to the to the laptop PC. The use case was very similar. It was the same applications, the same internet, right? On the laptop. You could access these use cases wherever you went. When you went from the laptop PC, to the smartphone. In the first few years, you were basically taking the PC app and bringing it to the smartphone. But then over time, new use cases emerged. You know what came first Uber of the smartphone. What came first protector, or smartphone? What came first A B and D a smartphone? What came first Snapchat a smartphone, right? So all of these new use cases came about because there was a powerful platform in the smartphone. And new applications new services emerged. That brought many more users that changed how we think about being mobile. Right? Just imagine running around with your laptop, looking for an Uber drive. See the same thing when we go from the smartphone to available. The first customers were smartphone customers. You know Samsung? LG. Apo, right. And the first set of applications came from the smartphone. Instead of looking at the calendar on your smartphone, you get a notification here. In the messaging, you get a notification here, right. But over time the smartwatch became a platform on itself. And many, many new apps, new services new use cases emerged. Right? I'll give you some examples. Yeah. You know, we are so much healthier today. We are so much active today. We know how we slept. We can do something about this platform has truly become your health and fitness. Over the last two or three years COVID accelerated the trend. You know before or COVID, I would go to the doctor. Now the doctor comes to me, the nurse comes to me, they come to me through my smartwatch, they know who I am, they have access to my vitals, they can do remote patient monitoring, right? Because they have access to where I am, who I am, what my vitals are, right. Another example we have at Qualcomm, the brought fashion and technology together, right? I like to say, we carry technology, but wear fashion, right? So, so think about a smartwatch, you don't want to wear technology, you don't want to wear something that looks like a smartphone on your wrist. You want to wear something that is unique to you, that differentiates you, that represents you, that's an extension of you. What that means is you have to put fashion first you have to put user experience, first you have to put it first you have to put color first, right and then you bring technology. So, so we worked with the likes of fossil in the US on luxury brands like Louis Vuitton and Dan Coyle in Europe to drive the convergence of fascism in technology. that use case did not exist before. Mac Max, I can, I can spend the full day talking about you know how sports and technology together, how increasingly, my six year old and your nine year old are using smartwatches for children, right to stay connected with, with you and I write how the the senior population as we as the population gets older. You know, the silver generation is increasingly relying on technology to stay connected with with their sons and daughters, their doctors and nurses. They're using wearable to do that. Even my pet. I know where my dog is, because he has a pic tracker. And I know where he is, I know where I can find them. I know I will not lose him. Right? So in the early days in chapter one, you bring smartphone use case to a new form factor. But in subsequent chapters, you create new use cases you bring new users, you try to impact the life of every man, every woman, every child, every pet. And you know, have everyone enjoy the benefits of technology. It's very empowering, when you can do that. Max Matson 43:36 Oh, I'm sure no, absolutely. I mean, it must be pretty cool to see people walking around with tech that you, you know, spearheaded that you created designed, like just out in the public. It's pretty amazing. So that being said, that kind of ties into something you said earlier, right? Which is that if you're going if you're serious about getting into the space, you need to believe that the future is going to be better than today. Right. So, if I may ask, what are some of the kind of social possibilities medical whatever use case you see being enabled by AI maybe five years from now. Pankaj Kedia 44:12 You know, the way I think about this is existing technology helps you track progress helps you track your steps, right how far you have run, how productive you are. How many pieces you have sold in retail, how your orange orchard is doing. Ai takes you from tracking to recommending AI tracks you, right. It takes you from recommending to predict So in the context of health wearables, let's say it's not enough to track my ECG, my heart rate, my steps, I want my wearable to recommend what I should do day to day in the health fitness context. I want my variable to predict if I'm going to get COVID, right, or if I'm going to, you know, get a heart attack. And if I'm doing things that might lead me closer to diabetes, right, right. If I can do that, early enough, I can do something about. So So think of AI as looking at from looking back, which is striking, to making the present more interesting, that's recommended. And looking ahead, that's predicting. Now you can apply that to any use case. Era, think about, think about retail. Instead of just tracking who's shopping, what if you can recommend what they should be buying. Or if you can predict what your customer base would buy, you know, over the next month, or the next season, over the next year, based on data you have collected based on the last language models, you can do something about think about it in the context of, say, the legal profession. You know, the legal profession has not changed for the last umpteen decades, right. Each lawyers, you know, each assistant to the lawyer has to read mounds and mounds of data with AI. If you as a lawyer can focus on not tracking data, not reading all of this. But as a result, what's your recommendation? If you can focus on predicting what you know predicting the next two or three or five chestnuts? You'll be a much better lawyer, right? So we can apply this framework to any number of verticals. And, and we will see the power of AI, how it can truly change how we work and live and play and share? Max Matson 48:02 Absolutely, absolutely. It's, it kind of feels like you know, the first kind of waves that you describe were capturing information, right? So providing the data, the landscape that we needed to kind of build up to where we are today. And that today, it's about what do you do with that data? Right? What are all of the I mean, there are countless different things that you can do with the data that exists today, let alone the data that's going to be produced tomorrow. And so that actually bridges into something that I wanted to ask you, because you mentioned data in security earlier as one of the facets of investment that makes sense. And AI? What is your opinion on when it comes to data? When it comes to you know, kind of the hot topic that is how do we collect data? How do we make sure that we get consent for data, all of these things? And AI and its growth? How do you perceive those two things kind of moving in step going forward? Pankaj Kedia 48:57 Yeah, you know, without data, there would be no AI. Right? So, so data is foundational. To all of the benefits we are talking about. Right? There is public data. And there is private data. I don't want my private data to get out from my control. Right, right. I don't want the large language models to be training based on my private data. So that's where security and privacy become important. But But Max, if you look at you know, we talked about the internet. We talked about all kinds of mobile devices. The amount of data we're generating every year is literally is the sum of all of the data we generated until the last year. And you know, it's it's truly exponential growth in data. So the machine, the AI is essentially a proxy for my brain in a machine, right? If the machine can chug all that data and do something beneficial with it, more power to it, right? There is a lot of discussion around, you know, AI become AGI. So, you know, AI is the machine, trying to mimic how I think how I solve problems, right? Someday, the machine will get smarter than how I think about things. Right? Then we enter the age of AGI, artificial general intelligence. And then the machine will be telling us, you know, what's right, what's wrong. And you want that recommendation, you want that prediction to be based on good data, right, responsible data. private data treated as it should be treated, so that the two aren't intertwined. You cannot think about intelligence, artificial intelligence, you know, without thinking about data. Max Matson 51:46 100%. No, that's perfect answer. We're running a little bit tight on time right now. But I do want to make sure that I just had a fun kind of last question. So I saw recently that President, former President Barack Obama followed you on Twitter. That must have been a big moment. How did that feel? Pankaj Kedia 52:05 Yeah, I feel so lucky. I've had a really good run. At Intel at Qualcomm, I feel very privileged to work with the talented startup founders and CEOs I get to work with every day. I've been writing a lot about AI, about the tremendous promise of AI, but also the scary perils of AI. And so, over the last few months, I've become more active on social media. And I'm humbled that, that people like Barack Obama, find my writings, my thoughts interesting enough to follow me. So it's a it's a truly humbling experience. And I couldn't be more thankful, Max Matson 53:11 I'm sure and very much deserved. you've contributed so much to the industry, to the community, and you've given so much back in the form of investing in the next generation. And truly, just thank you for everything that you've done throughout your career and everything that you're doing, and we'll do very much appreciate it. Pankaj Kedia 53:29 Thank you, Max. I enjoyed this. We should do this more often. Yeah, you know, we live in very exciting times. The future is bright, the future will be full of abundance. Some people are calling it the age of abundance. So I'm just glad to be playing a small part in accelerating that future. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Max Matson 53:55 Thank you Pankaj!